It was a late-night chat at a bar that became an international headline and led to a conversation now sweeping the live music industry – are dating apps like Tinder, which make it easier than ever to meet people, killing late night culture?
James Young, the owner of Melbourne venues Cherry Bar and Yah Yah’s, recently took to Facebook to recount a conversation he had with a fellow Melbourne promoter, whom he declined to name. The conversation, of course, centred on the tough times facing publicans.
“I had an interesting chat last night at Yah Yah’s with another Melbourne Promoter. We were discussing the fact that 2015 was a tough year,” Young wrote. As far as he was concerned, the closure of beloved Melbourne venue The Palace and the fall of the AUD had created a dangerous climate.
But his friend posed a theory that, in Young’s own words, blew his mind. “You’ve forgotten the most important factor of all. Tinder has destroyed the live music and pub scene,” the anonymous promoter told Young.
“First, look at Grinder [sic] and the gay scene. Grindr came two years before Tinder. Commercial Road, Prahran used to be a thriving late night gay hot spot. Now, it’s dead as a door nail. It’s over. Now we are seeing the same thing with Tinder.”
The promoter explained that the effect of Tinder has been disastrous for the late night scene. Young people opt to stay at home and swipe right or left instead of going out to clubs and when they go on dates, they prefer an impressive “chic dining experience”.
There wasn’t much more to it. After all, it was just two promoters talking shop late at night, even if the issues raised were certainly interesting. But to Young’s surprise, his simple Facebook post became a bonafide viral hit.
Soon, the media caught on and news outlets from around the world were covering Young’s post. Everyone, from NME and Mashable, to The Age and triple j got in on the conversation, leading Young to clarify his comments with Pedestrian.tv.
“Cherry is a very robust business. We’re lucky. We can weather the tough times. 2015 has been tough. I think people finding new and different non-social ways to ‘pick up’ has to mean a downfall in numbers at bars and clubs,” he told the site.
All the while, no one was able to track down the anonymous promoter who’d sparked a dialogue about what was apparently one of the most pressing issues facing the live music and late night industries.
“It wasn’t too long ago that Commercial Road was the gay hub. Now if you walk down Commercial Road, it’s a ghost town.”“It’s quite funny actually,” the promoter, who declined to be named, now tells Tone Deaf. “The conversation happened in the early hours in a nightclub, during a discussion about the tough financial times a lot of bars and nightclubs are going through at the moment, especially late night.”
While he says Young quoted him faithfully in the post, he says he “didn’t really mean Tinder is killing live music”, though he admits it makes for a good talking point. “What I said was more of an observation, and it was more about late night culture past midnight,” he says.
“The gay world has been years ahead of everyone else when it comes to innovative ways to hook up and meet partners,” he continues. “Grindr was massively popular before Tinder was even thought of.”
“It wasn’t too long ago that in Melbourne, Commercial Road was the gay hub, with a huge number of clubs, bars, and other businesses catering to the LGBTQ community. Now if you walk down Commercial Road, it’s a ghost town.”
“All that fantastic LGBTQ culture has gone, the bars and clubs shut up. But why? Well, obviously there are a number of possible and likely reasons, and it’s probably not down to just one culprit.”
“But my observation was that the loss of those nightclubs coincided with the rise of apps like Grindr. I guess it comes down to the core of why gay clubs existed in the first place.”
“For one, they were places for the queer community to be able to go out and enjoy themselves, free from harassment, where they could really let their hair down. And obviously, they were somewhere where you could meet other queer people, form friendships, find lovers, and of course, pick up.”
“So did an app like Grindr, which removed the need to go to a gay club to meet other gay men or women, have an impact on those clubs? I think it did. It certainly killed off the idea that you need dedicated bars and clubs for the queer community.”
While it’s obviously hard to quantify just what kind of impact the rise of Grindr or indeed Tinder would have on their respective demographics’ late night scenes, such an observation certainly provides food for thought.
“I don’t feel taken out of context, the core of what I was saying remains true.”“If you follow this logic, it then leads you to question whether the surge in popularity from Tinder could be having an impact on late night nightclubs. Again, and let’s be honest here, one of the big reasons people go out is to meet other people and pick up.”
“It’s not the only reason, but it’s one of the big ones. So if you make it easier to meet people without needing to go to a nightclub, you reduce that factor as a reason why people go out.”
“So what I was really saying, was that already there’s a huge amount of factors that are hurting the struggling bar and nightclub scene,” the promoter clarifies, citing issues such as prohibitive government legislation, overpriced drinks, and exorbitant cab fares.
“All those factors are working against late night culture, so now that it’s arguably easier and preferable to meet people through an app than it is in a nightclub, that’s one less thing those nightclubs have going for them,” he says.
“So it’s not really that Tinder is necessarily killing late night culture, but I think it’s probably signifying a change in the the publics tastes, and that’s something every promoter and nightclub owner should be thinking of and adapting to.”
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“Walk down the street, you can already see it. Most restaurants are actually bars that serve food and they’re absolutely killing it at the moment with lines down the street twice as long as nightclubs.”
“Things such as speciality cheese and wine bars are popping up everywhere; the drinking culture has changed, and the funny thing is they’re probably full of people on Tinder dates!” But as the promoter reminds us, don’t count out live music from the conversation.
“I don’t feel taken out of context, the core of what I was saying remains true. One important thing though, I wasn’t really talking about live music. If anything, taking someone to see an awesome local band is a great date idea.”
And how does the promoter feel about having his words picked up by countless international news publications? “When I woke up the morning after, very sore in the head, I was amused that the post was getting such a reaction,” he says.
“Now every day I’m seeing it pop up in news outlets from around the world… It’s all pretty amusing, and quite amazing when you think about it. I didn’t think what I had said was particularly insightful, or would cause this much discussion.”
