An Interview With New Order – Heaven Knows It’s Got To Be This Time

Particularly in light of Sumner having had films such as 24 Hour Party People and Anton Corbijn’s Control based on his career, does he sometimes feel perturbed or some weight on his shoulders to think that films are being made about him and that he’s  on millions of teenage bedroom walls 30 years later?

Sumner is frank in his assessment of he and Joy Division’s place in not just the rock n’ roll canon; but pop culture and art. “Not really, I got so used to being the public eye that way. Joy Division, I was 21 years old when I started. It was the first band I was ever in. I just got used to it. You get used to making videos and seeing yourself up there and being on stage. I got used to it but saying that, I do like to have my own private life and space because apart from when I’m with the band, I’m a pretty private person really. But yeah, I’ve got used to it, but people ask “is it weird to see yourself up there on film?” No it’s not weird to see myself up there, but is it weird to watch it…It was emotionally upsetting, but you have to remember that that film has been playing around in my head since events happened all those years ago. And that film is constantly there in my head. I still think about it.”

Sumner’s voice grows very soft as he reflects on Ian Curtis’ suicide. “I think there’s a sense of frustration with what happened to Ian; you certainly can’t do anything about it now. I tried talking to Ian many times but after he tried to commit suicide the first time…the problem with Ian was he’d tell you what you wanted to hear. So, if you wanted to hear that he had recovered or that he was feeling alright, that’s what he would say. It was kind of the opposite thing really, when you were talking to him, it was the person you wanted to talk to. But he wasn’t communicating with his deeper emotional feelings. But in his lyrics, where it was a burden…see myself I’m more comfortable to tell these things to a close friend, but to an audience it’s a public thing. But Ian was the other way around, he didn’t mind putting his thoughts in his lyrics for everyone to hear. I tried to talk to him, to ask him to see the good things in life. You’d always think you were getting through to him, but you never really knew”

It begs the question – did anyone ever really know Ian? Sumner pauses before continuing. “Ian knew Ian. He was a really, really nice person. Really pleasant. Really polite. But then also explosive. He’d suddenly explode over certain things. Usually he had a right to explode about issues, they weren’t unreasonable things to explode about. But when someone was being unreasonable with him, he would have a reaction to it. Not an measured logical reaction, but an explosive reaction and sometimes physical reaction when people did stupid things to him. But he wasn’t an angry man, it would never last long. And he was fun as well you know. He was good fun to be around. I guess he was a bit obsessive. He really, really, really wanted it.”

Sumner confirms that although Curtis was desperate for fame and success, he found it to be a double edged sword. “He really wanted to be successful. I remember being on holiday and he was unhappy because we were wasting time that we could be progressing the group. But when he did get what he wanted, it was all happening; he kind of didn’t want it any more. I guess that’s because the pressures on him were increasing and as a performer, he gave 200%. Joy Division were a fantastic band to watch live, very different to anything else. And really exciting to watch. And part of that was mainly because of him on stage. He gave so much you know. The more gigs we got and the offer to go to America put a great deal of pressure on him. I can understand that. Even now I can understand that. When he started getting what he wanted, the depression developed.”

Check back on Monday for Part Two of this epic interview where Sumner discusses the legacy of New Order, his bitter fallout with Peter Hook and why it means New Order will never reform.

Total – The Best of New Order & Joy Division is out now through Warner Music Australia

Part 2 Read part 2 of the interview here